Bad fire in Prescott!

Did someone say they were going to fight a fire in the morning. Prescott Fire Department confirms 19 firefighters have died battling Yarnell Hill fire

Wow what a nightmare.Kenny lives up in the woods on one side of town and our buddy on the other end.Pretty scary and most of the dead are Prescott guys.Damn

There the Granite mountain hot shot's and they were between Yarnell and peoples Valley. I'm holding my breath as I know a couple of those guys because some stayed in the dorms at my College when they were started out or improving their skills. A good close nit group of young men that I still see around and talk to. Collin a friend who lives up by me and works for the Groom Creek dept now should be OK, he's not a hot shot.
http://www.yc.edu/academics/degrees-and-certificates/firefighter-i-%26-ii-academy-certificate/65

This is a terrible tragedy. Kay and my thoughts and prayers go out to those brave souls and their families.

Until you've been there, you can't imagine the peril. When I was eighteen, a very, very long time ago, I happened to
drive to the mountains in the northwest corner of North Carolina to play in a golf tournament. (Kenny, actually it was
an area where Junior Johnson plied his first trade.) One evening a guy came to where we were staying and asked for
volunteers to help fight a fire coming up the side of the mountain. A number of us joined and off we went.

When we got to the area, equipped with picks, shovels and wet towels/bandannas it was obvious we were not prepared for this.
We were working an area that was supposedly safe when we heard a crackling sound overhead. The fire had jumped and caught
those trees. Needless to say, I was a great deal faster then than now and could have won the Olympics with that sprint.

We were okay and the fire was brought under control, no thanks to our efforts, I'm sure, and I did two things I'll never do again
that night. One is fight a fire and the other is drink moonshine. When we got back, all grimy and with wet trousers someone
offered us a drink. I now know where the expression "Sh@tfire came from and also, young and dumb.

Kenny, we are so glad you are okay and away from that horrid mess. Our hearts are heavy for those losses of lives and homes.

Prescott is my home town. I have family and friends scattered all over the area from Prescott, Williamson Valley, Chino Valley, Kirkland, and Yarnell. I am waiting to hear if everyone is OK. The Doce fire was bad and worst of all the season has just started. I remember the devestation from the Indian Fire in 2002. The bark beetle had already destoyed the forest making it perfect kindling. My heart aches for the loved ones.

This tragedy has taken 19 young lives, 3 of them I know. They were all so young, even the oldest was too young. It feels similar to September 11 where I can't stop watching the news and I can't stop crying for the boys and their loved ones. Life really is way to short.

Luna said:

This tragedy has taken 19 young lives, 3 of them I know. They were all so young, even the oldest was too young. It feels similar to September 11 where I can't stop watching the news and I can't stop crying for the boys and their loved ones. Life really is way to short.

So sorry for your loss. This was tragic.

Praying for those families and for everyone touched by this horrific event. Especially the spouses and kids of these brave souls.

Well stated, life really is short....

Rogue Columnist. It just makes you angry to think these guys died to protect a bunch of trac homes put in a dangerous area by some shady land swap. they should have never been built in the first place.

jerry said:

Rogue Columnist. It just makes you angry to think these guys died to protect a bunch of trac homes put in a dangerous area by some shady land swap. they should have never been built in the first place.

You aren't talking about the Yarnell area where the fire was, right?.. I go through there often, twice last month on my way to Cali.. Y! SPORTS


..yarnell az - Bing Videos Yarnell area real estate..http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=yarnell+az+real+estate&FORM=HDRSC2

..

jerry said:

Rogue Columnist. It just makes you angry to think these guys died to protect a bunch of trac homes put in a dangerous area by some shady land swap. they should have never been built in the first place.

That is his opinion and your opinion. It's not one I share; at least not at the moment. By all accounts, these were well-trained, brave men, doing what they chose to do.

By the same logic, Jerry, if a hurricane or tsunami wipes out your Santo beach home and somebody dies trying to save it, you were an idiot for building it there in the first place, right?

Give it a break, Jerry. This is too big a tragedy to throw your or the "rogue's" liberal bullshit at right now. How about saying a prayer for them and their families instead?

Stuart said:

That is his opinion and your opinion. It's not one I share; at least not at the moment. By all accounts, these were well-trained, brave men, doing what they chose to do.

By the same logic, Jerry, if a hurricane or tsunami wipes out your Santo beach home and somebody dies trying to save it, you were an idiot for building it there in the first place, right?

Give it a break, Jerry. This is too big a tragedy to throw your or the "rogue's" liberal bullshit at right now. How about saying a prayer for them and their families instead?

Well, that is why I built in a defendable position...back row on the crest of the hill.I had this same fight with the cult that built 35 cabins in a box canyon behind my ranch.Just plain luck saved them 2 years ago.So in response rather than moving or cutting brush they just said god saved them...not much of a plan
Also go out Iron Springs road in Prescott and look at all those trophy houses ( my friends among them) nestled in the pines...many infested by Bark Beetle and tell me that was a prudent zoning decision.They had my friend put a sprinkler system in...but the Happy Valley tank would run dry quick.

jerry said:

...they just said god saved them...

Maybe he did. Personally, I don't have that kind of faith and would take adequate prevention/precautions, but as is often said, the Lord works in mysterious ways.

Tip of the hat to Kenny for pointing out I am full of it and there are no new homes in Yarnell...but...http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/opinion/living-with-fire.html?ref=opinion&_r=1&
and
How suburban sprawl makes wildfires more deadly | Grist. The grist story puts numbers to the tragedy...we have moved into the woods and into our cars far from town....get a Bobcat and a 50'000 water tank like I have in Bowie or wait for Obama to save you....

OMG - SHUT THE #@$% UP!!! The issue, and the only important issue, is 19 boys are dead. Consider this - What if it was your 21-year-old son, nephew, brother, cousin, friend that died fighting this fire. While am preparing to attend too many funerals all I can think about is the wedding that will not happen now because he is dead, or the baby boy who will never get to know his father, or the mother who lost her only son, not to mention the people who lost their homes. It is about them period. SHAME ON YOU!

Luna, It is awful but how do we keep the next 19 boys safe? The answer is we try to fix past errors. Building deep into the woods is just a mistake.You mentioned bark beetle yourself.

jerry said:

Luna, It is awful but how do we keep the next 19 boys safe? The answer is we try to fix past errors. Building deep into the woods is just a mistake.You mentioned bark beetle yourself.

Next time you leave Jay's turn left on Iron Springs road and go through skull Valley and then through Peeple Valley going into Yarnell. You'll see that after going a short distance on Iron Springs you're in a completely different Eco system than Highland Pines (no Pine Trees) and you will probably go through 3 or 4 more by the time you reach Congress at the bottom of Yarnell hill..... Arizona, the most diverse state in Union.

Kenny said:

Next time you leave Jay's turn left on Iron Springs road and go through skull Valley and then through Peeple Valley going into Yarnell. You'll see that after going a short distance on Iron Springs you're in a completely different Eco system than Highland Pines (no Pine Trees) and you will probably go through 3 or 4 more by the time you reach Congress at the bottom of Yarnell hill..... Arizona, the most diverse state in Union.

Kenny when driving through there last year my first thought after being glad I didn't go over the cliff was what a fire trap.When you get to that big white metal fence it is just a tinderbox.

jerry said:

Kenny when driving through there last year my first thought after being glad I didn't go over the cliff was what a fire trap.When you get to that big white metal fence it is just a tinderbox.

A few years ago the desert burned for a week or better down by Bartlett reservoir and Horseshoe dam and the Lower Verde river. The reason the desert can burn like that is because of all of the invasive plants that have either been brought in by accident, or in some cases to remind someone of home. It's the same all over, non native plants are big part of fire problems we have these day's.

stuart said:

that is his opinion and your opinion. It's not one i share; at least not at the moment. By all accounts, these were well-trained, brave men, doing what they chose to do.

By the same logic, jerry, if a hurricane or tsunami wipes out your santo beach home and somebody dies trying to save it, you were an idiot for building it there in the first place, right?

Give it a break, jerry. This is too big a tragedy to throw your or the "rogue's" liberal bullshit at right now. How about saying a prayer for them and their families instead?

thank you!!!!

New West, Old Story - NYTimes.com

Afaid the answer to the question below is a modified Yes
"I have friend whose family has owned property in Yarnell for at least 50 years. I have had the pleasure of staying there several times. What you need to know about the folks in Yarnell is that these are just not people who had moved there to live in "a haven for retirees. Yarnell is also home to families with children. For the most part, most of the people living in Yarnell are just above or at poverty level and Yarnell gave them a somewhat inexpensive place to live. And because of their income levels, many of them probably couldn't afford insurance. All of them feel very badly about the loss of the firefighters and truly wish for a different outcome At the same time, the loss of their homes is an absolute tragedy for them Where are they going to live? They can't afford an apartment in most urban areas. Do we just abandon people who live in areas like this? It's not an easy answer

The Red cross and the ADS, animal disaster service has been at my College, Yavapai, since the beginning. We have people staying both in the gym, and in the one dorm that is not being remodeled. We are 1000% full, is what we like to say. A very busy 4th of July weekend for all of us in facilities. We've set up flat screen TV's in the Gym, along with a row of computers and that's just scratching the surface of what we are happy to do for our neighbors in Yarnell. Oh, we have opened our pool as well, with movies in the Performance hall on the big screen.
Yavapai College becomes animal shelter for evacuees of Yarnell Hill fires - National US Headlines | Examiner.com

Arizona fire deaths show no one should die for a house - The Washington Post. Good summary. Picture below is a fire up in the mountains above my ranch.Wrong wind and It would have paid me a visit.....turned out ok...this time

Channel 3 is running a special report tonight on Good Evening Arizona. "The search for answers. What happened on Yarnell Hill?" I hope this is the start of an ongoing investigation by many so in the future a tragedy like this may be avoided. The Hotshot crews stare death in the face every time they deploy and they need the best support and backup that is possible. Hopefully something good will come from this.

Row simmers over death benefits for Arizona 'Hotshot' firefighters | Reuters. Oh Brother

WHAT THE HE.......LL?????
Id like to kick the guy in the teeth that made the comment..... 'Perhaps there was a communication issue in your marriage.'"
He should be hung by his eyelids and kicked in the balls till he blinks.

Allright, I am spurred to comment. A tragedy? Of course, no question. No agency or company should place any workers in life threatening circumstances be they part time or full time employees, no matter what without disability and life coverage for the workers. Work danger comes in many forms, the firefighters might have been killed in auto accidents, airplane accidents or from many other dangers they face. It matters not how, but that they were lost. That said, there IS another side to the story: this is of course after the fact of the terrible accident and loss of life. The part time firefighters all signed contracts and agreed to work for the compensation and benefits stated in the contracts, the firefighters sought these jobs and knew what they were doing. Even though I feel it is negligence for the government entity to hire firefighters and not provide life & disability benefits I feel it is just as negligent for the individuals to voluntarily put themselves in what could be dangerous situations without having their own disability and health plans in place. There is a strong element of individual responsibility in addition to the responsibility of the employer. I wish all of the affected families a stable future and am saddened by their situation.

Families of Hotshot crew killed fighting Arizona fire to get generous payouts and the donations has grown a lot since this article.
Families of Hotshot crew killed fighting Arizona fire to get generous payouts - U.S. News

If it turns out nothing can be done and the part time families get limited benefits, I hope there is enough money from all of the private fundraising to at least afford them some help in addition to what they will receive in limited benefits.

El Tiburon said:

I hope there is enough money from all of the private fundraising to at least afford them some help in addition to what they will receive in limited benefits.

Completely agree with you on this, I hope they get enough money. It appears that those who receive only limited benefits will still get at least $500K, and a two year scholarship for all children and spouses at Yavapai College. And this amount will most likely increase as additional donations continue to grow. Is this enough money for the families to move on with their lives? The City of Prescott is faced with demands of extending benefits to all that will cost them 24 million. I don't know how this amount would be distributed but if you do the math that's 1.26 mil each. How much money is enough?

I am not trying to be disrespectful in any way to the families of the fallen firefighters. This was a horrible tragedy and I can't imagine what the families are going through. However, they like everyone else will at one point move on with their lives and I wonder just how much money they will need.

Actually extending full benefits to all 19, over time, would come closer to 50 million. The trouble with all this bad publicity and rumors about the money and where it will go, the donations have been effected in a negative way.

Lets be real here. Though Prescott doe's have laws they have to follow as far as coverage is concerned, there are more than a few conservative people who look at the unwed common law situations that some of our Hot Shots were in, as less than.

Kenny said:

Lets be real here. Though Prescott doe's have laws they have to follow as far as coverage is concerned, there are more than a few conservative people who look at the unwed common law situations that some of our Hot Shots were in, as less than.

Oh man, that's another twist to the story I haven't heard about. I wouldn't want to be the guy that has to make the decision about who is ineligible to receive benefits. Just a continuation of the tragedy.

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and there are several determining legal factors as to actual common law relationships
and significant other situations. I believe that if the common law situation includes shared financial assets, etc that person very well could be considered
for those benefits. I hope they all get the benefit of the doubt.

(Kay considers me her IN-significant other, however she does greatly participate in the financial situation. What's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.)

GV Jack said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and there are several determining legal factors as to actual common law relationships
and significant other situations. I believe that if the common law situation includes shared financial assets, etc that person very well could be considered
for those benefits. I hope they all get the benefit of the doubt.

(Kay considers me her IN-significant other, however she does greatly participate in the financial situation. What's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.)

Early on they knew there was going to be problems along that line and this quote show's it.

"We don't believe we're set up to make judgments on who gets what."

"We don't believe we're set up to make judgments on who gets what."

What a tragic and horrid position for anyone to have to be experiencing. I don't envy the judgor or the judgee.

GV Jack said:

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night and there are several determining legal factors as to actual common law relationships
and significant other situations. I believe that if the common law situation includes shared financial assets, etc that person very well could be considered
for those benefits. I hope they all get the benefit of the doubt.

(Kay considers me her IN-significant other, however she does greatly participate in the financial situation. What's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.)

Many, many years ago I was informed that in the state of Arizona it is actually illegal to live together. I only know this because I myself broke the law :D!
I have no idea if this law was ever changed, but if not common law would not apply?

Yarnell Hill Fire: The Granite Mountain Hotshots Never Should've Been Deployed, Mounting Evidence Shows
"Thanks for this great piece of investigative reporting. I am amazed that neither the local Prescott newspaper (Daily Courier) of the local E-Zine seems to be incapable of doing anything close to investigative reporting.

"It currently looks like the Prescott elected officials and top city management have adopted 'circle the wagons' strategy and it appears to me that the news releases are being written or vetted by the City Attorney. The city has also hired a Phoenix public relations firms to help with additional 'air cover' or fallout (or more accurately, CYA)."

Keep up the good work.
Jack D. Wilson
Prescott Mayor Nov. 2007-Nov. 2009

jerry said:

Yarnell Hill Fire: The Granite Mountain Hotshots Never Should've Been Deployed, Mounting Evidence Shows
"Thanks for this great piece of investigative reporting. I am amazed that neither the local Prescott newspaper (Daily Courier) of the local E-Zine seems to be incapable of doing anything close to investigative reporting.

"It currently looks like the Prescott elected officials and top city management have adopted 'circle the wagons' strategy and it appears to me that the news releases are being written or vetted by the City Attorney. The city has also hired a Phoenix public relations firms to help with additional 'air cover' or fallout (or more accurately, CYA)."

Keep up the good work.
Jack D. Wilson
Prescott Mayor Nov. 2007-Nov. 2009

Given the potential for lawsuits (they are coming) and personal liability, and having to make decisions on this tragedy that may or may not be popular, I would want every available asset I could possibly muster to be working for me.

Everyone sure is tiptoeing around the personal responsibility issue in this case. We all agree that there should have been some coverage for the Hotshots, what about taking care of your own business also?

I agree but the problem is 20 year olds usually do not think to far ahead.The commenters in this story are really good.When the former mayor takes a shot at you too it is going to be a bad month.

dirtsurfer said:

Given the potential for lawsuits (they are coming) and personal liability, and having to make decisions on this tragedy that may or may not be popular, I would want every available asset I could possibly muster to be working for me.

Everyone sure is tiptoeing around the personal responsibility issue in this case. We all agree that there should have been some coverage for the Hotshots, what about taking care of your own business also?

http://www.azcentral.com/insiders/laurieroberts/2013/10/11/holy-smokes-yarnells-fire-chief-did-what/
Yarnells idiot fire chef ( he stopped cutting brush before the fire because as a libertarian he believed in personal responsibility) has quite the past...

Remembering the Granite Mountain Hotshots 2 years later...

12 of the families only got 50 k apeice. Seems a few zeros off

I saw 7 families got only 10K

They are the ones that did not sue.