Rocky Point Talk archive

Tragedy in Bahia La Choya.

Started by playaperro · Apr 28, 2012 · 49 replies
playaperro
By: Silvano Galicia War
ROCKY POINT, ARE.

imageEnded in tragedy for a Sunday stroll in Bahia La Choya, a dinghy capsized when a well known family members walked into the bay aboard a light boat (panga) when it turned to be about 400 meters from the seashore, dying choked the girl of 2 years old Syrian Azucena Miranda Saavedra.
According to information provided by the authorities, at approximately three-thirty in the afternoon of Sunday 22 April, received call in the C-4 in which gave notice that a boat had capsized in La Choya Bay, in the call requesting the presence of fire, red cross, rescue workers and Navy of Mexico, since that panga was approached by many people, all struggling get out of the water.
According to witnesses of the facts, and some who walked on board the wreck, who was leading Villa Raul Leon, who she began to swim back to shore, noted that the panga, the girl was stuck, so they returned, the bank rescued still alive, so immediately, and with the authorization of the unfortunate father, Victor Manuel Leon, moved aboard his vehicle at a clinic city, when the red cross ambulance paramedic in command Luis Castro Careaga, caught him, being transshipped to the ambulance, still alive, leading to a private clinic, only the doctor who declared it was lifeless.
In the scene showed police officers the city and state where they took the statements of those who were protagonists of this unfortunate tragedy, there was learned that the ship is considered as the light boat (panga) of 16 feet length (L) and 6 feet wide (W), which was addressed by 19 people, this was the first causal shipwreck, had only 6 lifeguards, another detail is that the boat has no registration number, not a name to identify formally added to the dinghy towing a "Banana" and make a turn, the crew was "loaded to one side, which made ​​the dinghy capsized, leaving to swim most of the walkers.
The facts were reported to Mr. Jesus Alberto Figueroa Ocampo, head of the ministerial agency of this city, who was accompanied by the agent Mauricio Lopez Mendoza, expert attached to the PGJE criminologist who testified to the facts and ordered the transfer of the body the funeral autopsy will turn to law, and the subsequent delivery to their families for funeral services.
Seadweller
I heard about this the other day from Adolfo... he said they we near by on the About Time and saw it happen... truly a tragedy... I can't understand why people think they can put 19 people on a boat made to hold 6 and because of this a two year old girl is dead...
moore_rb
ooof. very sad.

Last week while coming back into port I had one of the banana boat guys pulling about 10 kids run straight at my boat, and turn into the wake when he was literally only 40 feet away.... idiots.
Seadweller
On the topic of Banana Boats

A couple years ago after doing some freediving & spearfishing with my hawiian sling down by whale hill from my kayak on the way back to the port I stopped to watch the sunset from in front of the Penasco del Sol Hotel... as I was sitting there a banana boat went past and one of the passengers fell off... no biggie right..? well the banana boat kept going the boat pilot never even turned around to check his riders...

I saw the passenger who had fallen off start waving his arms in the air and everytime he did he would begin to slip out of the life vest he was wearing because it was to big for him... I imimmediately paddled out to the young boy who was too far away to begin swimming for shore... when I reached him I saw that he was in panic mode and remembered from my boyscout lifesaving days and also being a rescue diver I knew I had to get him calmed down or knock him out to rescue him...

In order to calm him down I tried to get his attention and asked him if he wanted a ride back to shore... well it worked and he began to calm down, but then to try and calm him down further I thought of trying a little humor and said I'd do it for 20 pesos... Ooops he went back into major panic mode and this time he grabbed on to my kayak and flipped it and me as well as my sling and the two sardineros I had shot into the water...

I righted my yak and got him on it then got on myself onboard (I use a ocean kayak malibu 2+2 with seating for 3) and paddled us back to the beach where his trip had originated... by the time we got there the banana boat had returned and I asked the boat operater for 50 pesos because I had to give one of his passengers a ride back to shore... he just looked at me with a clueless expression on his face as the kid I rescued was screaming at him...

a couple days later the story of my rescue got around at la bajada (public ramp) and it turns out one of the hooka clam divers had found my sling and said he would sell it back to me for $50.US... I just laughed and told him maybe the kid that I rescued would pay him for it but I wouldn't... end of story...
Mexico Joe
Seadweller said:
I heard about this the other day from Adolfo... he said they we near by on the About Time and saw it happen... truly a tragedy... I can't understand why people think they can put 19 people on a boat made to hold 6 and because of this a two year old girl is dead...



They think they can because they are uneducated!!!! Isnt this the underlying issue in Mexico; lack of education?!
Stuart
Tragedy waiting to happen. Saw four kids on a tiny lake paddle boat meant for 2 people at most at the entrance to the harbor, right by the cruise ship wreck coming back in Sat. I slowed way down, afraid my wake was going to swamp them. A) Shouldn't have been so many of them on this tiny floating piece of plastic (should say barely floating). B) Stay in the harbor, the water was pretty rough with a strong breeze even in the harbor on Sat. evening. It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt, right?
don
How sad.

Quick thinking- you know you saved that boys life.
azfish
I have no respect for those banana boat drivers, one of them almost took out some of our beach dive group. Yes we had flags up, and it seemed like they were aiming for the flags. I would never let my kids ever go on them. Seadweller, that kid was lucky you were there. You were his guardian angel that day. That scum bag who found your spear, hope he sits on it and takes it all the way up.
Seadweller
Thanks azfish & don...
Seadweller
Stuart said:
Tragedy waiting to happen. Saw four kids on a tiny lake paddle boat meant for 2 people at most at the entrance to the harbor, right by the cruise ship wreck coming back in Sat. I slowed way down, afraid my wake was going to swamp them. A) Shouldn't have been so many of them on this tiny floating piece of plastic (should say barely floating). B) Stay in the harbor, the water was pretty rough with a strong breeze even in the harbor on Sat. evening. It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt, right?


I do a lot of kayaking and the banana boat deal wasn't the only rescue I was involved with and more or less in the same area... one day while heading out the wind was blowing and the waves were picking up and if you've seen any of my kayaking or swimming videos this is the type of water I like to play in... as I was paddling out of port I noticed several of the pangas that were returning to port, slow down and someone on the panga lean over the port side and looked to be shouting at a pink object in the water...

Being curious I paddled over to that area and found a young boy struggling to swim across the mouth of the port to join his friends over by the Navy base... this boy was wearing one of those pink long balloons that clowns use to make balloon animals tied around him for a floatation device and he was struggling to fight the wind current that was blowing him out of port...

I just said get on my kayak and this little guy popped out of the water like a mullet and onto the back of my kayak... I couldn't believe that the commercial panga fishermen didn't pull this boy out of the water they just shouted at him... and I agree with Joe it is all about education or the lack of...
moore_rb
Mexico Joe said:
They think they can because they are uneducated!!!! Isnt this the underlying issue in Mexico; lack of education?!


Uneducated...? I don't know.

I don't see where education is the fundamental key to understanding the concept of self-preservation. I would be willing to bet that at least one person who got on that panga probably had the nervous feeling that they were taking an awful risk...

and they were right.
PintoPoint
I was down at Pelican Point and the boat was a small tri-hull runabout with a canopy on top. Not even close to being a panga. I was suprized to heard how many people were on board.

Rick
Cholla Bay
Mexico Joe
moore_rb said:
Uneducated...? I don't know.

I don't see where education is the fundamental key to understanding the concept of self-preservation. I would be willing to bet that at least one person who got on that panga probably had the nervous feeling that they were taking an awful risk...

and they were right.


Lack of formal or informal education. I dont necessarily mean formal education like schooling however that is an issue too but rather informal education that one learns from lets say a parent figure. Growing up as a kid you learn things from people around you especially adults. I've never tried to go boating on a 12 foot boat with 19 people on board. Ive never been out to the lakes here in Phoenix or the oceans in Cali and Mexico with family and had 19 people on a boat, "prolly" because all of us were educated enough to understand that's not a good idea. Obviously I understand that certain boats have certain weight capacity limits. My kayak can hold 400 lbs but that wouldnt stop a Mexican family from putting 8 people on it! Maybe Im completely wrong in my assumption maybe it's just a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE...
azfish
Mexico Joe said:
My kayak can hold 400 lbs but that wouldnt stop a Mexican family from putting 8 people on it! Maybe Im completely wrong in my assumption maybe it's just a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE...



8 would go on, because the weight limit tag is in english.
jerry
I think it's more of a group dynamic thing rather than the superior intelligence of Arizonans (Jesus...Jan Brewer is our Governor..and high school drop out rightwing crazy rich kid Jesse Kelly just easily beat the ex head of NATO Air arm ,Harvard Grad Martha McSally in the primary for Giffords seat. Martha McSally - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Martha is well, Awesome and Arizona voters???? they keep piling in the right wing boat to nowhere
moore_rb
Mexico Joe said:
Lack of formal or informal education. I dont necessarily mean formal education like schooling however that is an issue too but rather informal education that one learns from lets say a parent figure. Growing up as a kid you learn things from people around you especially adults. I've never tried to go boating on a 12 foot boat with 19 people on board. Ive never been out to the lakes here in Phoenix or the oceans in Cali and Mexico with family and had 19 people on a boat, "prolly" because all of us were educated enough to understand that's not a good idea. Obviously I understand that certain boats have certain weight capacity limits. My kayak can hold 400 lbs but that wouldnt stop a Mexican family from putting 8 people on it! Maybe Im completely wrong in my assumption maybe it's just a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE...


No, I think you are on the right track...

I've never failed to marvel at the power of groups to overwhelm the better judegement of the few who should probably be listened too. Similarly, Peer pressure causes FAR more teen casualties than it should. I think it is a similar dynamic.

I've said it before- common sense, it seems, is not so common after all.

The unfortunate flip-side to this is that if we let the "few" who have common sense begin to make all the decisions for the "many" who are too stupid to step off the railroad tracks when they hear that horn blast behind them, then we end up in a dangerous place where elitists begin thinking that they are morally justified in imposing their will and judgement upon others (right, Jerry?)

Thinking for one's self pays enormous dividends, but only if you have the discipline to pay attention.
moore_rb
jerry said:
high school drop out rightwing crazy rich kid Jesse Kelly just easily beat the ex head of NATO Air arm ,Harvard Grad Martha McSally in the primary for Giffords seat.



is Jesse a relative of yours?


THAT would be an interesting family reunion dinner to attend.... :)
jerry
People especially religious people are sheep.A member of the religious cult next to my ranch either murdered or watched her husband die of starvation in a cave above the 20 retreat cabins the 37 other religious nuts are occupying for 3 years last Sunday.The group all works together to hide how crazy they are all becoming...why? same reason the Catholic Church hid the priest child molester explosion...they are taught from an early age not to question the man ...
Roberto
Well, if you take a Darwinian approach, it's all good. Having mucked around in the sea of slime that is a part of humankind it's not surprising and there is absolutely nothing you as an individual can do about it but yack. I'm at a point where I feel like a pervert just reading about someone else's pain and trajedy. Yes, yes I know many are innocents.
Seadweller
jerry said:
people especially religious people are sheep.a member of the religious cult next to my ranch either murdered or watched her husband die of starvation in a cave above the 20 retreat cabins the 37 other religious nuts are occupying for 3 years last sunday.the group all works together to hide how crazy they are all becoming...why? Same reason the catholic church hid the priest child molester explosion...they are taught from an early age not to question the man ...


and jerry you're perfect right..?
Kenny
Mexico Joe said:
Lack of formal or informal education. I dont necessarily mean formal education like schooling however that is an issue too but rather informal education that one learns from lets say a parent figure. Growing up as a kid you learn things from people around you especially adults. I've never tried to go boating on a 12 foot boat with 19 people on board. Ive never been out to the lakes here in Phoenix or the oceans in Cali and Mexico with family and had 19 people on a boat, "prolly" because all of us were educated enough to understand that's not a good idea. Obviously I understand that certain boats have certain weight capacity limits. My kayak can hold 400 lbs but that wouldnt stop a Mexican family from putting 8 people on it! Maybe Im completely wrong in my assumption maybe it's just a CULTURAL DIFFERENCE...

You've seen it Joe... Have any of you tried to trailer a boat when all the locals are swimming on a hot weekend at the launch site at Cholla?
cholla
jerry said:
I think it's more of a group dynamic thing rather than the superior intelligence of Arizonans (Jesus...Jan Brewer is our Governor..and high school drop out rightwing crazy rich kid Jesse Kelly just easily beat the ex head of NATO Air arm ,Harvard Grad Martha McSally in the primary for Giffords seat. Martha McSally - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Martha is well, Awesome and Arizona voters???? they keep piling in the right wing boat to nowhere


Never miss a chance to push your agenda, eh Alinsky?
Kenny
cholla said:
Never miss a chance to push your agenda, eh Alinsky?

Maybe closer than you think, except maybe the organizational skills..LOL...Saul Alinsky - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not at any time. I've never joined any organization—not even the ones I've organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what Judge Learned Hand described as 'that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you're right.' If you don't have that, if you think you've got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide.[sup][4]
jerry
Seadweller said:
and jerry you're perfect right..?
Well except for this thing I'm in now (trying to keep these lovable Diamond Mountain cultists next door from hurting or killing more members) I mostly do things for my own self interest.As a byproduct much hiring and training then setting people up in there own gig took place over the last 25 years.That plan seems to work better in the long run. You seem to have some problem with me lately ...sorry if i have bummed you out,,,hell I think what you do is great and Kenny and i have a friend that might be helpful in your operation...write it up and we'll pitch it....
a
Seadweller
jerry said:
Well except for this thing I'm in now (trying to keep these lovable Diamond Mountain cultists next door from hurting or killing more members) I mostly do things for my own self interest.As a byproduct much hiring and training then setting people up in there own gig took place over the last 25 years.That plan seems to work better in the long run. You seem to have some problem with me lately ...sorry if i have bummed you out,,,hell I think what you do is great and Kenny and i have a friend that might be helpful in your operation...write it up and we'll pitch it....
a


No jerry I don't have a problem with you, it's just your attacks on people who don't follow your agenda is getting pretty old... like the old saying one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, but if one christian or catholic does something wrong we're all included in your reteric...

It's just like the press when they generalize crime in Mexico... It doesn't happen in Santo Tomas does it..? But Santo Tomas is in Mexico so shouldn't it be included... no I think not...

I'm not political, but my beliefs are more to the center and I disagree with a lot of what is said by people on the left but I don't flame them every time I post calling them names... I just think you could be a bit more civil on here, after all this is a forum about Rocky Point and not MoveOn.org
jerry
Well people were saying this accident suggested Mexicans are dumb while i suggested it might instead be a result of being effected by the patriarchal pressure to act without questioning authority organized religion encourages in the flock.
Stuart
jerry said:
Well people were saying this accident suggested Mexicans are dumb while i suggested it might instead be a result of being effected by the patriarchal pressure to act without questioning authority organized religion encourages in the flock.


No, you're just being a dick. Knock it off. Nobody said Mexicans were "dumb". It was implied that being under-educated contributes to people making stupid decisions. It's not just a Mexican trait. Famous last words from any number of redneck Americans (after "hold my beer") -- 'Hey, watch this!' Boom, dead, drowned, whatever. You need look no further than YouTube to see a plethora of idiots with no common sense.
moore_rb
Stuart said:
You need look no further than YouTube to see a plethora of idiots with no common sense.


heheheheh.... yeah.
Mexico Joe
This comes back to the essential question of life, nature vs nurture? I feel as though a lot of behavior is learned. I would like to think that I act and think a certain way because I have learned to from people around me; parents and other adult figures. I tend to see this a lot in people with a lack of education, formal or informal. It's almost acceptable to be degenerate in front of your child, like it's normal. Im sure many of us have seen something where all we can do is SOH (shake our head), whether it's in Mexico or here in the States. There are things I see and all I can do is SMH. The sad thing is, when the child grows up he or she is going act and behave in this manner like it is normal and or acceptable. Most of the degenerate behavior we read about or see on the news stems from this very problem; lack of parenting, bad parenting and lack of education. I guess you can say it is a cultural difference. Culture - Cul-ture : a : the integrated pattern of human behavior that includes thought, speech, action, and artifacts and depends upon the human capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations. So before someone goes apeshit on me and calls me racist Im talking about culture pertaining to an individual not a race. This can be white trash, Mexican, whoever...
jerry
Races of Mexico and the Mexican Genome "Generally speaking, the genome reseach confirmed what was already obvious about the mixed origins of the Mexican population. The project concluded that Mexicans are the product of the mixture of 35 ethnic groups.
image
Roughly speaking, the Mexican
population was calculated to be 65% indigenous, and 35% non-indigenous (European, African, Asian.)"

To yor point Joe remember people do dumb stuff out of halfassedness all the time...welding without proper protection,eating rich foods while suffering from gout,reaching under objects in snake country,riding Atv's or motor cycles when the conditions are not the best or take me I just moved a trailer full of hay without checking the lugnuts oops! and I defeat all comers at Jeopardy!...... my semidickish posting came from dealing with a group of well educated religious people all from upper middle class backgrounds (some European etc.) they are under the spell of a leader that has them isolating themselves for 3 years out here in Bowie...this just caused one death and there have been two near suicides...I have been trying to get outside agencies to investigate and have been told privately they won't because "those folks up there aren't with the lord" that's where my comment came from,concern about people who are suffering from a religion they just can't quit on....

GV Jack
"halfassedness, eating rich foods while suffering from gout", Halfassedness, (Goody Goody, Jerry invented a word) Unfortunately I resemble
that remark. I qualify, but I just got back from an eating tour of RP and right now I'm gout free. :sunny:

By the by Jerry, about your remarks re: Martha McSally. You are right, she is awesome. I had the pleasure of meeting her in March and she is
just as nice as she is smart and brave. You might have a problem with her though. She is a devout Christian. She speaks at Victory here in Tucson
and the worst of all things, she happens to support and is on the board of directors of Teen Challenge, Arizona. Other than those dmning qualities she is a wonderful lady.

We now uninterupt this program for more fascinating information.
Stuart
jerry said:
...a religion they just can't quit on....


Well, that adds some context to your remark. People have been dying in the name of religion since Eve handed Adam the apple and he took a bite. Guayana - Jim "Drink the Koolaid" Jones, the comet-spaceship guys in San Diego (don't even remember the name of that cult), anybody named Jessop in Colorado City and, not even in the name of religion, but self-improvement, killing yourself in a Sedona sweat lodge. God has a funny way of gene-pool cleansing, doesn't he?

There is no way you would have convinced any of those I just mentioned (and likely your local cult) that their beliefs would kill them. Most are willing to die for those beliefs. Lemmings. One jumps, they all jump.
moore_rb
Mexico Joe said:
This comes back to the essential question of life, nature vs nurture? I feel as though a lot of behavior is learned. I would like to think that I act and think a certain way because I have learned to from people around me; parents and other adult figures. I tend to see this a lot in people with a lack of education, formal or informal. It's almost acceptable to be degenerate in front of your child, like it's normal. Im sure many of us have seen something where all we can do is SOH (shake our head), whether it's in Mexico or here in the States. There are things I see and all I can do is SMH. The sad thing is, when the child grows up he or she is going act and behave in this manner like it is normal and or acceptable. Most of the degenerate behavior we read about or see on the news stems from this very problem; lack of parenting, bad parenting and lack of education. I guess you can say it is a cultural difference. Culture - Cul-ture : a: the integrated pattern of human behavior that includes thought, speech, action, and artifacts and depends upon the human capacity for learning and transmitting knowledge to succeeding generations. So before someone goes apeshit on me and calls me racist Im talking about culture pertaining to an individual not a race. This can be white trash, Mexican, whoever...




It seems you have reached the final fork in the road, my young Jedi. I think I was in my mid-20's when it hit me that everything from here on out would be nothing more than a result of how my personal philosophy interacted with the world around me...


From here, your choice in life will be whether to walk the path of those who respect the rights of other people to live as they choose, make their own decisions, and live with the consequences of those decisions (even if the consequences turn out to be horrible for themselves and/or others); or will you walk the path of the altruistic soul who strives to "save" everyone else from the consequences of their seemingly stupid (or more correctly, ill-timed, or immature) decisions and behaviors...?

In other words, Are you going to walk the path that I choose? or the one that Jerry chooses? I don't think either one is right or wrong, but I do think that one is more expensive (ie: requires a greater degree of personal emotional capital) than the other.

Jerry may be a commie pinko ratfink, but you have to have some degree of admiration for his drive and determination in wanting to prevent others from enduring the sorts of ugliness that I simply think of as the "yang" to the universal beauty's "ying".

Roberto's comment about Darwinism is spot-on (if a little harsh)... Survival of the fittest includes the successful passing of of common sensical reasoning and decision making skills from generation to generation.

I think you are absolutely right Joe- The behavior of self-conduct (and civility) are learned. If we are left only to our animal instincts then we end up behaving like animals.

It all boils down to personal choice- are we (as individuals) going to choose to follow our intinctual drive for instant gratification (damn the long term after-effects), or are we going to evaluate our decisions before hand and base our choices on reason and rationality...?

Is it so difficult to understand why some people think it would be ok for so many people to get into such a small boat, while other people fundamentally understand what a very bad idea it is...?

It has nothing to do with race, skin color, or ethnicity... it has to do with cognition.

What is the most famous line in all the Star Wars movies?

"I have a bad feeling about this".... That line is included somewhere in all 6 movies. It's not a coincidence.



Geez... I SO belong in the cave at the top of the mountain, with my long white beard and wearing my long flowing robes... Why am I wasting my time here with all you Hawaiian shirt wearing, Jimmie Buffet listening goons? :)
moore_rb
Stuart said:
the comet-spaceship guys in San Diego (don't even remember the name of that cult), .


Heaven's Gate...

What a waste of good Nike's...
Stuart
moore_rb said:
Geez... I SO belong in the cave at the top of the mountain, with my long white beard and wearing my long flowing robes... Why am I wasting my time here with all you Hawaiian shirt wearing, Jimmie Buffet listening goons? :)


Whatever, Swami Moore... :lobster:
playaperro
Are we talking victims or volunteers?
jerry
An Open Letter from Geshe Michael | Diamond Mountain is the sex crazed Guru Roach (yep thats his name) blaming Ian's death on him rather than Roach's ex student sex slave who stabbed him in the chest 2 times then hid in a cave with him and watched him die...(in a spiritual way man)
GV...I met McSally at a "meet the hicks" stop...we hit it off....and I let the Teen Challenge guys wash my truck ...although that nightmare job might put them back on the pipe
moore_rb
playaperro said:
Are we talking victims or volunteers?


You are directing that question at me, right?

Again, this is all philosophy, but I personally only see two kinds of victims in this world:

1) Victims of their own recklessness (volunteers)
2) Victims of someone else's recklessness (innocent victims)

Examples of the first kind are easy - take sky-divers for instance. Every time you jump out of a perfectly good aircraft, there are only 2 plausible outcomes:

A) At least one of the parachutes will deploy successfully, and you will live to jump again
B) Neither chute will deploy successfully, and you're going to be dead when you hit the ground.


In this kind of scenario, I am all for letting people take their own risks and bet on their own chances. Like Jerry says above- we all have examples of activities where we take short cuts, or unnecessary risks in our day to day activities, and most times things work out ok, but sometimes they end up very badly...

The second kind of victim (like the little girl is this tragic story) is a heart breaker, because she was not able to make a decision regarding the impending risk to her personal well being; but I have to assume that one of the adults on that boat was her parent or guardian, and that person exercised poor judgement that left a baby dead. As painful as that may be for people to think about, the alternative can NOT be to deny people the right to make their own decisions regarding their children's safety.

It all comes down to trust, right? Our children trust us to safe-guard them, because they are not capable of safe-guarding themselves. Is this little girl dead because of a freak accident, or is she dead because an adult who might have known better than to load that many people in a small boat took a terrible risk and made a bad choice? Tough question.

As a parent myself, I can not tolerate anyone telling me how best to raise my kids; so likewise, I can not tolerate myself telling anyone else how best to raise theirs... that would make me a hypocrite.

I personally cringe every time I see young people in a car without seat belts, while their parent drives along showing callous disregard... but in this, I can only take the same action Joe does and shake my head (SMH).
GV Jack
jerry said:
An Open Letter from Geshe Michael | Diamond Mountain is the sex crazed Guru Roach (yep thats his name) blaming Ian's death on him rather than Roach's ex student sex slave who stabbed him in the chest 2 times then hid in a cave with him and watched him die...(in a spiritual way man)
GV...I met McSally at a "meet the hicks" stop...we hit it off....and I let the Teen Challenge guys wash my truck ...although that nightmare job might put them back on the pipe


I heard there was a huge fund drive after that. They needed an addition for more beds. If you and Martha hit it off, then both of you must be OK. Did you tell her you were a
commie, pinko, ratfink?
Kenny
What a bunch of balony.... I'm with Ron White, "you can't fix stupid".
Mexico Joe
moore_rb said:
It seems you have reached the final fork in the road, my young Jedi. I think I was in my mid-20's when it hit me that everything from here on out would be nothing more than a result of how my personal philosophy interacted with the world around me...


It all boils down to personal choice- are we (as individuals) going to choose to follow our intinctual drive for instant gratification (damn the long term after-effects), or are we going to evaluate our decisions before hand and base our choices on reason and rationality...?

Is it so difficult to understand why some people think it would be ok for so many people to get into such a small boat, while other people fundamentally understand what a very bad idea it is...?

... it has to do with cognition.

Why am I wasting my time here with all you Hawaiian shirt wearing, Jimmie Buffet listening goons? :)



Reflection of self

Yes its very difficult, its actually mind boggling. The parent is responsible for that child and this is a case of negligence. This parent or owner of the boat could possibly face felony charges in America especially if alcohol was involved!! This outcome could have been avoided and if that's the case then the only thing this could have been or could be is negligence.

Train of thought. I dont think it has to do with cognition or lack of. Their brain is cognitive they understand what they are doing but for them THEIR CULTURE says it's normal to put 19 people on a boat. This comes back to learned behavior. Ive learned that if I put 19 people on a boat here in Phx and it sinks and someone dies I could be potentially facing charges and or be found liable in civil court. Cant you be a complete moron and still have brain cognition?!


Take it easy my mom is a Parrot Head :cheers:
audsley
You guys are all way too deep for me. When do you think the shore fishing might pick up? Especially for Corvina?
Roberto
There is another post here that the guy said he caught several last weekend.
audsley
Oh yeah, over on the Newbee thread. I'd missed that one.
moore_rb
Mexico Joe said:

Take it easy my mom is a Parrot Head :cheers:




Shhh...don't tell anyone, but so am I :wink:
moore_rb
audsley said:
You guys are all way too deep for me. When do you think the shore fishing might pick up? Especially for Corvina?



LOL.. the philosopher fisherman (Fishlosopher?) says the corvina should be starting to show up in numbers - the water is over 70 degrees, and that is when the warm season species usually start showing up ...


Hmmm... "Fishlosopher"... do I have a new name for my boat?
playaperro
Hey Robert i was a victim of you fishlosophy at first I did not care for your views of life but you did change and are starting to make sense, So now i guess i'm a
volunteer of your fisho. Like they ask you are the border, what type of work you do? and u make a face and they say oh you know you don't have to answer that.
moore_rb
playaperro said:
Hey Robert i was a victim of you fishlosophy at first I did not care for your views of life but you did change and are starting to make sense.



Thanks, Dog.

If I can make half as much sense as Jerry or Roberto then I guess I'm doing ok... (you know, since I am also half their age :wink: )
jerry
Dec. 21 2012 we all go out together...spend the kids college fund and put off the prostate exam
moore_rb said:
Thanks, Dog.

If I can make half as much sense as Jerry or Roberto then I guess I'm doing ok... (you know, since I am also half their age :wink: )
Mexico Joe
jerry said:
Dec. 21 2012 we all go out together...spend the kids college fund and put off the prostate exam



LOL Ill come along to take the photos!!