Sec 5 and 9 got hit hard with the wind and high tide over the weekend. . House in 9 lost the seawall, a swimming pool beachside and looks like the house is gone too !!
Sea wall damage in LC
Started by Roberto · Oct 29, 2019 · 54 replies
Roberto said:Sec 5 and 9 got hit hard with the wind and high tide over the weekend. . House in 9 lost the seawall, a swimming pool beachside and looks like the house is gone too !!
Do you have any pictures? Who builds the sea walls for here?
Roberto said:Sec 5 and 9 got hit hard with the wind and high tide over the weekend. . House in 9 lost the seawall, a swimming pool beachside and looks like the house is gone too !!
Oh my! How far back from the wall was the pool? The pool from house?
Here's a few pictures from a friend of mine who lives out there.
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So building concrete structures on a sand foundation is bad?
Queen of Kings said:So building concrete structures on a sand foundation is bad?
I’m not a structural engineer, but that looks more like a facade (or a farce) than something I would rely on for an extreme event.
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Idyllwild said:I’m not a structural engineer, but that looks more like a facade (or a farce) than something I would rely on for an extreme event.
The point is that you cannot build on sand and expect it to hold in an extreme event like we had over the weekend..many of the structures have been there many years...every time someone adds a structure it changes the energy flow from the storms. In the old days before adding sea walls the natural dunes took the hit not concrete.
Idyllwild said:I’m not a structural engineer, but that looks more like a facade (or a farce) than something I would rely on for an extreme event.
If you look closely you can see they used the original sea wall for a footing. They were not thinking years ago that our tides would be on the rise as they are today.
Anything happen to that house that has a pier?
Actually it is not about tides being worse today than decades ago, but that the coast (any coast, due to fluctuating currents and weather patterns) shifts constantly. For example, around 15 years ago, the approximate 3-4 foot dunes on our beach were carved -- overnight -- to approximately 10-foot "cliffs." During ensuing years they reformed to their previous state. Also, there are sea walls and then there are sea walls. A true sea wall goes down something like 10 feet below ground, and has other heavily structural elements than merely cement.
Last edited: Oct 30, 2019 at 8:30 AM
Southbeacher said:Actually it is not about tides being worse today than decades ago, but that the coast (any coast, due to fluctuating currents and weather patterns) shifts constantly. For example, around 15 years ago, the approximate 3-4 foot dunes on our beach were carved -- overnight -- to approximately 10-foot "cliffs." During ensuing years they reformed to their previous state. Also, there are sea walls and then there are sea walls. A true sea wall goes down something like 10 feet below ground, and has other heavily structural elements than merely cement.
It may not entirely be about rising tides, but there is no question, none, that climate change with rising tides is a factor. Don't believe it? Good for you.
Kenny said:It may not entirely be about rising tides, but there is no question, none, that climate change with rising tides is a factor. Don't believe it? Good for you.
Nope. It's another hoax put out by the liberals. Weather has been happening for millions of years and will continue to happen. Mankind can do NOTHING to change that.
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We're having a little trouble with the knuckle draggers like our member above, so we're just going to have to leave them behind and hope they didn't procreate. This is supposed to be a non-political site, but recently the loser bunch has brought up Democrats, progressives, and liberals. Good, sleep tight.
Merely sharing what I know, regardless of predictable censorship, which does not faze me.
Last edited: Oct 30, 2019 at 10:53 AM
Southbeacher said:I merely try to share what I know, regardless of predictable censorship, which does not faze me.
"censorship" No kidding? I know facts don't "faze" you, it's obvious by your denial.
There, there, Kenny. Have a nice day.
Kenny said:We're having a little trouble with the knuckle draggers like our member above, so we're just going to have to leave them behind and hope they didn't procreate. This is supposed to be a non-political site, but recently the loser bunch has brought up Democrats, progressives, and liberals. Good, sleep tight.
I earlier said I’m not a structural engineer. But I am a physical scientist with a few hundred publications. The water from those melting glaciers is going somewhere. Don’t buy any fancy globes, a lot of coastlines are going to change. Having said that, I looked at a number of properties in Los Chonches, and saw several that I thought were susceptible to being undermined. I also looked very closely at one that had a professionally engineered breakwater constructed with two neighboring properties that looked good for the next several decades. I’ve owned a number of homes, and built several. The quality of construction in Rocky Point is highly variable, and for the next 20 years or so, quality engineering is probably more important than sea level rise and increases in storm intensity. By 2099 Mexicali will be an hour’s drive from the beach, but I won’t be there to see it.
fatboyharley said:Anything happen to that house that has a pier?
My understanding is that it is the same location as the so called pier
These fixed structures assume the coastline will remain the same. Like the banks of a stream things change, sometimes dramatically and there is little that can be done to stop the change. It is not a question if a seawall will fail it is a question of when it will fail. You just hope that will be after your lifetime !
And yes you have to be concerned about your neighbor's sea wall. Many are tied together in one big structure from house to house so you have to be concerned about protection along the sides as well as the face to the sea.
And yes good engineers are needed. A neighboring property to this one payed for a rebuild of a failed seawall and it fell again in the next storm in just a few months. Just throwing down a lot of concrete is not sufficient. I do not have the sense that there is any legal recourse either.
Take a look at the newly built house Sec. 5 , Lot 22 on the beach side. Even a modest high sea was going directly into the lower level of the house when first built. Some 'improvements' were made but I think this last assault of the sea went into the house again !!
And yes you have to be concerned about your neighbor's sea wall. Many are tied together in one big structure from house to house so you have to be concerned about protection along the sides as well as the face to the sea.
And yes good engineers are needed. A neighboring property to this one payed for a rebuild of a failed seawall and it fell again in the next storm in just a few months. Just throwing down a lot of concrete is not sufficient. I do not have the sense that there is any legal recourse either.
Take a look at the newly built house Sec. 5 , Lot 22 on the beach side. Even a modest high sea was going directly into the lower level of the house when first built. Some 'improvements' were made but I think this last assault of the sea went into the house again !!
I keep wondering of the 'pier' the guy built contributed to the damage. Seems to me a sandy beach would slow the flowing water a lot more than a smooth concrete surface. the flat smooth pier might have been like a raceway for the incoming tidal waves pushing the water to the sea wall and the home. If a hole was poked in the sea wall it was all over. Any hydrologists engineers or physics people comment ??
I know a lot of physics (a whole lot) but I’d want to look at the property or at least some good photos to opine. I’ve done some marine and coastal work on the side. “Breakwaters“ commonly result in a scalloped pattern on a beach with sand building up on one side and being depleted on the other. This sounds like a concrete boat ramp or walkway. Certainly could have focused some wave energy and changed the location of the break a little. In the US something like this would probably go to litigation, and then you would get expert reports from the parties. Also in the US you wouldn’t get permitting for this except maybe Florida.
Roberto said:I keep wondering of the 'pier' the guy built contributed to the damage. Seems to me a sandy beach would slow the flowing water a lot more than a smooth concrete surface. the flat smooth pier might have been like a raceway for the incoming tidal waves pushing the water to the sea wall and the home. If a hole was poked in the sea wall it was all over. Any hydrologists engineers or physics people comment ??
Look at the third photo down. I know that wall. I thought it was creatively built and super rugged. It has lasted many many years. But notice that the water was behind it and so the waves had to be big enough to force huge amounts of water into the yard. That back pressure against the wall probably exploded it from the inside out. I have another picture of nothing but a pile of rubble no walls to be found. The sea walls were installed to extend the living space of the home owners effectively getting rid of the dunes below the house, the concrete and plastic is no match for an angry sea.
And the sea was angry that day my friend
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Roberto said:I keep wondering of the 'pier' the guy built contributed to the damage. Seems to me a sandy beach would slow the flowing water a lot more than a smooth concrete surface. the flat smooth pier might have been like a raceway for the incoming tidal waves pushing the water to the sea wall and the home. If a hole was poked in the sea wall it was all over. Any hydrologists engineers or physics people comment ??
I have not been down to see the damage but I do hope the "pier" was eliminated
I think the second picture down shows the stairs that led down to the so called Pier. If you look at the biggest damage to the house the stairs lead right up to that area. And yes the pier was more the size of a walkway between the boats at a small marina and not at all tall. I thought quite close to the sand on the beach. there would have beenwater at the pier very infrequently and only at a fair tide so it's not clear what was hoped to be accomplished. Certainly could not use it to tie up a boat. Maybe a nice place to sit if you hate to get sandy!!
Seems possible the house has been eliminated !!
fatboyharley said:I have not been down to see the damage but I do hope the "pier" was eliminated
Seems possible the house has been eliminated !!
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From that 3rd pic it appears that the blue lower, maybe older, part was not sufficiently attached to the upper , maybe newer part. It collapsed all along the top of that lower part in a straight line. Interesting how it left the bridge across the top and just blew out the middle. .
Roberto said:I think the second picture down shows the stairs that led down to the so called Pier. If you look at the biggest damage to the house the stairs lead right up to that area. And yes the pier was more the size of a walkway between the boats at a small marina and not at all tall. I thought quite close to the sand on the beach. there would have beenwater at the pier very infrequently and only at a fair tide so it's not clear what was hoped to be accomplished. Certainly could not use it to tie up a boat. Maybe a nice place to sit if you hate to get sandy!!
Seems possible the house has been eliminated !!
Owner is a contractor of high end homes in Scottsdale you would have thought he would have known better
Well now there is no sea to deal with in snotsdale is there ???
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Everyone, It's actually pronounced Snooooootttssssdale, :cool:
brokenwave said:Everyone, It's actually pronounced Snooooootttssssdale, :cool:
and that fits him to a tee lol
We didn't see record tides in Miramar. It was the wind, not the tide that caused the damage
Odd and interesting side note to the storm the beach out near the end of sec 9 was covered with hundreds of shells, the lemon sized ones with a pink interior. Sec 5 nearby has nary a one.
MIRAMAR said:We didn't see record tides in Miramar. It was the wind, not the tide that caused the damage
Actually a combo of both, winds with a 17.1 new moon tide made it what is was. My tide line in Encanto is highest its ever been from it. Thank God it wasn't a 19+ high tide with that wind.
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Roberto said:Odd and interesting side note to the storm the beach out near the end of sec 9 was covered with hundreds of shells, the lemon sized ones with a pink interior. Sec 5 nearby has nary a one.
nary, huh ?
Southbeacher said:Merely sharing what I know, regardless of predictable censorship, which does not faze me.
I was sent to the bench one time in all the years I've been on our forums, and that was because I stated that Stuart was a climate change denier. He said it was political, but after he set me down for two weeks he proceeded to expound on the subject himself and how he was not a "denier". That was fine with me and again. I've never gone crying to Stuart about anyone, ever.
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Kenny said:I was sent to the bench one time in all the years I've been on our forums, and that was because I stated that Stuart was a climate change denier. He said it was political, but after he set me down for two weeks he proceeded to expound on the subject himself and how he was not a "denier". That was fine with me and again. I've never gone crying to Stuart about anyone, ever.
Kenny said:I was sent to the bench one time in all the years I've been on our forums, and that was because I stated that Stuart was a climate change denier. He said it was political, but after he set me down for two weeks he proceeded to expound on the subject himself and how he was not a "denier". That was fine with me and again. I've never gone crying to Stuart about anyone, ever.
when in doubt follow the money , that's why we got out of the Paris climate acord. Climate has been changing for millions of years and will be for millions more . It's a money grab .
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Maduro steve said:when in doubt follow the money , that's why we got out of the Paris climate acord. Climate has been changing for millions of years and will be for millions more . It's a money grab .
You have one thing right and one thing only. Yes, you can follow the money, and it goes straight to big oil.
Please, let's not turn this into a political rant!
Once the houses leveled the sand dunes in front of their houses 30 years ago they set in motion beach erosion that only accelerates. Once the sand has moved the currents will begin to channel even more. It’s important on any coastline to protect the dunes to keep erosion under under control. Rebuilding the dunes is a long term process most people don’t own their homes long enough to see progress! The secret- protect the vegetation and the existing dunes will grow!
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LAS CONCHAS UNDERGROUND said:Once the houses leveled the sand dunes in front of their houses 30 years ago they set in motion beach erosion that only accelerates. Once the sand has moved the currents will begin to channel even more. It’s important on any coastline to protect the dunes to keep erosion under under control. Rebuilding the dunes is a long term process most people don’t own their homes long enough to see progress! The secret- protect the vegetation and the existing dunes will grow!
Yes, and those in Estero Morua are still hauling in boulders for breakfronts at their waterline this week in spite of the Federal zone officials warning them not to. They too caused other homes damage last week to those who did not have any artificial breakfronts in front.
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Great Pics. Gracias.!!
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I grew up in Kailua HI on the beach. 50 yrs ago my parents gave up and moved off the beach. You just could not win. Shifting tides, winds, storms. One day it was no longer worth it.
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marybna said:I grew up in Kailua HI on the beach. 50 yrs ago my parents gave up and moved off the beach. You just could not win. Shifting tides, winds, storms. One day it was no longer worth it.
Truer words were never spoken!
If you look at the picture, the white house to the right has a sea wall that appears to be significantly higher than the adjoining 3 story house that had a sea wall failure. Cannot tell much about he other house since there is not much sea wall left to look at. I think the standard height for safety has risen.
Roberto said:Sec 5 and 9 got hit hard with the wind and high tide over the weekend. . House in 9 lost the seawall, a swimming pool beachside and looks like the house is gone too !!
ernesto said:And the sea was angry that day my friend
Oh wow! That was a crazy day! I couldn’t believe the high waves and we had so many damaged beaches in Las Conchas. Crazy winds the day after.
Anyone have pictures I can share? I used to own there when I was younger. Not on the ocean but the wind and sand damage could get really bad.
Any reports from last night ??
Tide was very high, and wind surge made for a nasty high tide with crushing waves against beachfront homes.
wondering if there was any additional damage ?
Tide was very high, and wind surge made for a nasty high tide with crushing waves against beachfront homes.
wondering if there was any additional damage ?
rplarry said:Any reports from last night ??
Tide was very high, and wind surge made for a nasty high tide with crushing waves against beachfront homes.
wondering if there was any additional damage ?
I haven't heard anything, the day to watch for is this Thursday, we expect up to 50 mph winds and this morning at 8 am was the new moon phase so the tides are extreme for a few more days...wind and high tides....who knows what lays in store?
mexicoruss said:I haven't heard anything, the day to watch for is this Thursday, we expect up to 50 mph winds and this morning at 8 am was the new moon phase so the tides are extreme for a few more days...wind and high tides....who knows what lays in store?
anybody have any new updates from the Thanksgiving storm, with high wind and tides?
Any additional or new sea wall damage in LC?
Talked to a guy who lives on Sandy Beach in a condo who said that many condos had windows blown out from the high winds.
Roberto said:If you look at the picture, the white house to the right has a sea wall that appears to be significantly higher than the adjoining 3 story house that had a sea wall failure. Cannot tell much about he other house since there is not much sea wall left to look at. I think the standard height for safety has risen.
The science on seawalls was settled 40-50 years ago: Build a seawall----lose your beach. It is just common sense that if you put a wall that has moving water constantly hitting up against it, the sand is eroded away. As someone stated, the way to preserve the beach is to preserve the dunes with their native plants. The same mistake LC made is being repeated in Estero Morua
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ernesto said:
And the sea was angry that day my friend
Like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli.
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